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Forum Home > Rules Discussion and Ideas > Guns

Gideon
Site Owner
Posts: 1026

Ladies and Gentlemen, 

I was wondering about removing the cost from making bullets or making it so that they last the entire day if you use a resource because guns have gone back out of fashion again in the system or am I wrong?


April 14, 2015 at 7:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dave the clueless
Member
Posts: 30
Still think some limit is required. But perhaps making it easier to make or purchase would be an idea. Am aware of keeping pvp balanced as well. We may not do much but my next character is hoping to change that.
--

I am Sir Richard DeGaunt, slayer of foes and thrower of dead bodies!

April 14, 2015 at 7:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

Ammunition is too costly for beginners and by the time they have set up their character well enough, a firearm may not interest them :P

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Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

April 14, 2015 at 8:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

James Embleton
Member
Posts: 61

I agree some limit is required as dont want people to just have unlimited bullets all the time (since guns can easily outclass bows with their ability to be used in close range as well as long)

However that being said it can be rather difficult to get bullets as you have to hope to find someone who has a gunpowder homestead or have one yourself and since a gun (much like a bow or crossbow) might be a characters staple weapon it would be nice to be able to get bullets a little easier

Perhaps some way of gettign them in downtime such as losing a certain amount of any resource and gaining some bullets for it to represent you trading in your world for them (place with access to guns surely could find bullets to buy without too much difficulty) this would of course use up a downtime action but it allows players to not have to go out of their way to find someone to provide them with bullets and hope they turn up again next event and also puts less pressure on lorien players to have to start with a gunpowder homestead and some sort of workshop

--

Verris Harle: Legate Ironwood: Mercenary Melnisian with a forte for unnecessary violence and is definitely not Verris at all... nope

Lazarus: Minorly renowned thug, mercenary and hater of slavery. Now with guns!

Doctor Francis Newton Stein: Just a chap with medical skills... who runs an asylum.

April 14, 2015 at 8:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete_Walls
Member
Posts: 316

As an off the top of my head thought, what about something along the lines of 


"Ammunition is a Resource"

At the end of any encounter in which a gun has been used you make a bead pull:

White = Enough ammo left to keep going.

Blue = Enough ammo left to reload the gun this time, but then you're out of bullets.

Red = Can't find any ammo left in the normal places you store it. But after the next encounter / 5 min rest you can empty out your pockets / pouches to see if you can find any more.

Black = No ammo left, you're out for the day.


That way it would be in line with other Resources like Herbs for Alchemy, Iron for repairing Armour etc 

Plus people don't have to keep track of an exact number of bullets.


It means "Ammo" can still easily be a resource that people with the right skills can create and trade.

Guns will occasinally run out, so there's always some risk.



Perhaps make the pull necissary for each & every gun used?

_

Pete

April 14, 2015 at 8:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Gideon
Site Owner
Posts: 1026

Characters can make bullets themselves using powder monkey in downtime and if you can remember the name and have a good relationship with an NPC you can trade with them in downtime.

April 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete_Walls
Member
Posts: 316

Maybe allow a generic "Trade with NPCs" as a Downtime action?

Can buy anything appropriate to your own world for, say, three times the resources it would cost to make (or get 1 resource of any type at a cost of 3 other resources)?

Can sell anything for, say, half the resources it would cost to make? 


Means NPC trade is possible, but trading with PCs on event is likely a better prospect.

_

Pete

April 14, 2015 at 9:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

James Embleton
Member
Posts: 61

I have to say i do like pete bead pull for guns

But also the npc traders (for extortionate prices) would be a nice function, as otherwise new players are buggered if they use guns until they can buildup a relationship with an npc or pc (as it seems rare to find npc's who we can trade with well) so having he generic trade with npc's would be nice but of course if you build up relations then you can begin getting stuff for better prices which would encourage trying to make friends with npc's more often during events as potential trade resources

--

Verris Harle: Legate Ironwood: Mercenary Melnisian with a forte for unnecessary violence and is definitely not Verris at all... nope

Lazarus: Minorly renowned thug, mercenary and hater of slavery. Now with guns!

Doctor Francis Newton Stein: Just a chap with medical skills... who runs an asylum.

April 14, 2015 at 9:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dave the clueless
Member
Posts: 30

Had a chat with Beth as she is in th new person boat.  2 Ideas that we came up with.  First is when you first create a character purchasing the gun gets you a certain amount of starting ammo. Second is to increase how much is created with a resource.


For those with scavanger perhaps a white bead can allow them to choose up to 2 of the resources being ammo.

Or as an alternative have it you can only carry 1 magazine (not including the massive barrel ones) with you on the day.  So if you burn it in an encounter you cannot fire it till you have collected them and reloaded.  Same as it works for arrows in so far as a player tends to only carry a few and has to collect them afterwards.

--

I am Sir Richard DeGaunt, slayer of foes and thrower of dead bodies!

April 14, 2015 at 9:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Coelossus
Member
Posts: 52

As a frequent user of my fire arm in the system, nerfing it up, i will not deny that startig with 8 shots in the gun and a knife, is not in the least part daunting. That said i find no issue in the balance of things that while making ammo i have enough resource to make 60 odd rounds of ammo but only end up making 24, due to some unforseen accident.

Though it would be nice that when you buy your gun in character creation that it came with atleast half if not a full 'load out' of ammunition to start with.

Having a NPC common market sounds quite good. Sells generic common items specific to your world, at a higher rate than making it yourself, for those people whom may have not taken powder monkey or a homestead with black powder production, though i feel i must point out your missing a trick when your not using the high social advantage of inter player trading and communication available to all, not just at event sites but on these forums and Fb aswell. There are more than a few Lorians in Exeter, who make their own ammo.

On more of an RP line of thought unless backed by a prodigiously funded group like the military or similar, you wouldnt have large quantities of ammo in the field to hand, you should be picking your shots and making them count.

 

 

 

April 14, 2015 at 2:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Lady-Pandora
Member
Posts: 14

Ammunition was limited because of complaints against cap guns and how fast they can be shot.


I think the problem is that the trade system in the game is pretty static, if your not in a group then you'll find yourself hard put to find resources, playing a gun mage I find a double hit with resources especially with weekend events. A general NPC market place could help with this to push trade but what we need to do is trade between characters.


Also maybe we could have a "take white" option, so if a character spends an extended amount of time, maybe at least fifteen or 30 mins they can choose to take a white bead result without pulling a bead, similar to the take 10/take 20 option in D&D??

April 14, 2015 at 5:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Gideon
Site Owner
Posts: 1026

I dont know, a lot of people in the system keep telling me they want to trade, but then dont do it. 

I can think of at least two or three posts on this forum who want to trade, but they often go unlistened to, its nice to see this forum being used and when we get people using it more that may start making more trade and that might have a strong influence on the game.

April 15, 2015 at 12:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

I think if you are planning on making ammo easier to aquire (I would like that personally) and people are worried about them becoming overpowered again, then you should add a new defence against them, for example a new anti-firearms specific shield (with maximum hight/ length) that can be used as an absolute defence against them and only be broken by say a large axe, hammer or sword or has a maximum useage of say repelling 30 shots and afterwards must be repaired otherwise it will be ineffective but cannot be destroyed/ shattered by firearms or other weapons - so those weapons I said that could break it earlier, they just reduce its defence from however many bullets it can deflect to 0 - and then requires repairing. Master crafting would increase the durability of the shield by say 50-100% - - - just a thought

--

Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

May 3, 2015 at 7:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

Of course it would be rather expensive becuse it is a form of absolute denfece against an entire weapon type :P

--

Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

May 3, 2015 at 7:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Gideon
Site Owner
Posts: 1026

I think the fact that large shields stop bullets largely anyway puts gun users at something of a disavantage against them.

The horrible truth, is that this was to help a real world disparety rather than a game one: its quite expencive to buy a shield, but relatively cheap to get a cap gun and a BILLION caps!

May 4, 2015 at 4:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete_Walls
Member
Posts: 316

For what it's worth I'll second Gideon on that front: Shields are already good against guns: Cap & Nerf guns both.

_

Pete

May 4, 2015 at 5:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

Well then - why are we not funding this! http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Here+you+have+an+introduction.+Just+google+Graphene+_4e9610e02e2b4ee946bcd127782db585.jpg

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Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

May 4, 2015 at 6:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

Or perhaps we could just limit maximum ammo capacity per player and amount of bullets that can be bought/ traded each day (safety regulations say)

--

Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

May 4, 2015 at 6:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete_Walls
Member
Posts: 316

}} limit maximum ammo capacity {{


I'm not sure I follow: If the problem at the moment is that Ammo is too difficult to get hold of, limiting it doesn't feel like a solution?


To my mind the ideal solution would be one which means:

  • Players with guns feel like they generally have the ability to use their guns in most fights (because, let's face it, not getting to play with your toys is an unfun thing).
  • Attrition, somehow and to some degree, becomes a factor: So that there's an element of risk involved in using guns *all the time*.
  • Fits intuatively within the exisiting rules.
  • Preferably (in my opinion) involving as little hassle as possible - I know a couple of people have been put off by the idea of having to actively count bullets in & out, for example. 

Hence my thoughts as to Ammo being a resource, and working like an Alchemist's Herbs, or an Armourer's Leather / Metals etc


Though, that said, I'm not trying to dictate:

a) because it's Gideon's game, not mine

b) because I'm genuninely interested in other people's perspective on things. 

_

Pete

May 5, 2015 at 5:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jupiter
Member
Posts: 13

I'm just trying to list of as many alternative ideas as I cna think of hear :P Also if we were to limit capacity I would also think that making them easier to obtain (as Gideon said above) would go hand in hand with that :P

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Jupiter Moone: Lorien - an eager boy looking for wealth to pay back his families debts, beware his mighty double ended Kanabo.

May 5, 2015 at 12:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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